"The OT delineates who is allowed to be a slave and who isn’t."
1. What do you mean we don't permit slavery? We are all enslaved by the bank!
2. The old covenant was overturned by Christ, and "love thy neighbor as thyself" does not permit slavery - so it is not part of Christianity. It is of course still part of Judaism.
Of course we should not permit freedom of religion.
It's obvious that evil should not be permitted. Of course it's also true that the definition of good and evil is inherent to each religion - and differs between religions. Therefore every religion should outlaw every other religion. Should they all fight to the death?
I am not saying outlaw religion. But many religions have political positions. There is nothing inherently religious in a political position taken by a religion. Just because it is part of a so-called religion.
I don't think it is possible to distinguish between religious and political positions - a religious position is religious to the believer even if it is political to the non-believer.
My remark was facetiously expressed in order to make the point clear - but the problem is very real. People with conflicting definitions of good and evil cannot live together in harmony. At a minimum they need to separate.
Slavery is a good example. You can find on the internet Jewish rabbis (presumably extremists) who openly state that all goyim have been promised to them as slaves by their God. As far as they are concerned this is a religious issue.
There is a big difference here. Mainstream Jewish leaders do not believe in this. Even though someone somewhere might. But mainstream Islamic leaders do.
I agree - when a religion preaches that acts of aggression and violence (or any other crimes) towards members of another religion are permissible, then it cannot be permitted in a mixed society.
An extreme example is the Thuggee sect of India - a small sect who believed their God commanded them to roam the roads robbing and murdering travelers. The British conduced a long operation to uncover the members and execute them all. It's hard to see what else could sensibly be done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee?ysclid=mavtjrkyzt467429196
Do they? Slavery was cetainly part of, and apparently copndoned by Islam for a long period, but I hadn't heard that mainstream Islamic leaders today still believe in, and preach, slavery.
Wikipedia (obviously may not be entirely reliable) states the following:
"By the 1950s–1960s, a majority of Muslims had accepted the abolition of slavery as religiously legitimate.[145] Islam as a whole has never preached the freedom of all men "as a doctrine" up to the current day.[146] However, by the end of the 20th century, all Muslim countries had made slavery illegal,[147] and the vast majority of Muslim organizations and interpretations of sharia firmly condemn modern-day slavery.[146] In 1926, the Muslim World Conference meeting in Mecca condemned slavery.[148] Proceedings from an Organization of Islamic Conference meeting in 1980 upheld human freedom and rejected enslavement of prisoners.[145] Most Muslim scholars consider slavery to be inconsistent with Quranic principles of justice.[147] Bernard Freamon writes that there is consensus (ijma) among Muslim jurists that slavery has now become forbidden.[148] However, certain contemporary clerics still consider slavery to be lawful, such Saleh Al-Fawzan of Saudi Arabia.[147][149][150]"
Can you point me at sources indicating that slavery is a mainstream Islamic practise today?
Sadly I think I disagree that mainstream Jewish leaders do not believe it. For example Shneerson (the Rebbe) - who was the leader of Chabad Lubavitch - appears to have done so. And Chabad Lubavitch is a very important, mainstream religious/political organization within Judaism with connections to almost all Jewish structures and institutions as well as links to, and influence over, all western governments. So at least *some* mainstream Jewish leaders believe in and advocate slavery.
Sorry. I wasn’t clear. The extreme positions of Judaism and Christianity are not supported by mainstream leaders. But Islam’s leaders do support extreme positions.
See above. I disagree with your interpretation here.
1. Some of Judaism's religious leaders, including the mainstream, clearly support extreme positions including slavery and the genocide we are currently witnessing.
2. Some of Islam's religious leaders also support extreme positions (e.g. jihad, fatwah), but not - as far as I can tell - slavery.
3. Christian religious leaders also support extreme positions (e.g. humanism, transgender, woke etc.) without apparent support from the bible, but not - as far as I can tell - slavery or genocide.
In practice, slavery - or something which approximates it - is present in many countries around the world of all religions.
One key difference between Christianity and the other two Abrahamic religions is that Christianity advocates equal treatment for people of different religions while Islam and Judaism permit the treatment of "others" as second class citizens. That said, supposedly Christian countries have not historically behaved this way - although that is a matter of politics rather than religion.
Excellent!
Thank you.
Allah Akbar!!
That would be a really good start.
I’m with you bro! Let’s repeal the second amendment!!
Definitely not repealing anything. Just clarifying what is religious and what is political.
"The OT delineates who is allowed to be a slave and who isn’t."
1. What do you mean we don't permit slavery? We are all enslaved by the bank!
2. The old covenant was overturned by Christ, and "love thy neighbor as thyself" does not permit slavery - so it is not part of Christianity. It is of course still part of Judaism.
Of course we should not permit freedom of religion.
It's obvious that evil should not be permitted. Of course it's also true that the definition of good and evil is inherent to each religion - and differs between religions. Therefore every religion should outlaw every other religion. Should they all fight to the death?
I am not saying outlaw religion. But many religions have political positions. There is nothing inherently religious in a political position taken by a religion. Just because it is part of a so-called religion.
I don't think it is possible to distinguish between religious and political positions - a religious position is religious to the believer even if it is political to the non-believer.
My remark was facetiously expressed in order to make the point clear - but the problem is very real. People with conflicting definitions of good and evil cannot live together in harmony. At a minimum they need to separate.
Slavery is a good example. You can find on the internet Jewish rabbis (presumably extremists) who openly state that all goyim have been promised to them as slaves by their God. As far as they are concerned this is a religious issue.
There is a big difference here. Mainstream Jewish leaders do not believe in this. Even though someone somewhere might. But mainstream Islamic leaders do.
But my point is even though it might be considered someone’s ‘religious’ position that can’t be considered religious and be protrected.
I agree - when a religion preaches that acts of aggression and violence (or any other crimes) towards members of another religion are permissible, then it cannot be permitted in a mixed society.
An extreme example is the Thuggee sect of India - a small sect who believed their God commanded them to roam the roads robbing and murdering travelers. The British conduced a long operation to uncover the members and execute them all. It's hard to see what else could sensibly be done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee?ysclid=mavtjrkyzt467429196
Do they? Slavery was cetainly part of, and apparently copndoned by Islam for a long period, but I hadn't heard that mainstream Islamic leaders today still believe in, and preach, slavery.
Wikipedia (obviously may not be entirely reliable) states the following:
"By the 1950s–1960s, a majority of Muslims had accepted the abolition of slavery as religiously legitimate.[145] Islam as a whole has never preached the freedom of all men "as a doctrine" up to the current day.[146] However, by the end of the 20th century, all Muslim countries had made slavery illegal,[147] and the vast majority of Muslim organizations and interpretations of sharia firmly condemn modern-day slavery.[146] In 1926, the Muslim World Conference meeting in Mecca condemned slavery.[148] Proceedings from an Organization of Islamic Conference meeting in 1980 upheld human freedom and rejected enslavement of prisoners.[145] Most Muslim scholars consider slavery to be inconsistent with Quranic principles of justice.[147] Bernard Freamon writes that there is consensus (ijma) among Muslim jurists that slavery has now become forbidden.[148] However, certain contemporary clerics still consider slavery to be lawful, such Saleh Al-Fawzan of Saudi Arabia.[147][149][150]"
Can you point me at sources indicating that slavery is a mainstream Islamic practise today?
Sadly I think I disagree that mainstream Jewish leaders do not believe it. For example Shneerson (the Rebbe) - who was the leader of Chabad Lubavitch - appears to have done so. And Chabad Lubavitch is a very important, mainstream religious/political organization within Judaism with connections to almost all Jewish structures and institutions as well as links to, and influence over, all western governments. So at least *some* mainstream Jewish leaders believe in and advocate slavery.
Sorry. I wasn’t clear. The extreme positions of Judaism and Christianity are not supported by mainstream leaders. But Islam’s leaders do support extreme positions.
See above. I disagree with your interpretation here.
1. Some of Judaism's religious leaders, including the mainstream, clearly support extreme positions including slavery and the genocide we are currently witnessing.
2. Some of Islam's religious leaders also support extreme positions (e.g. jihad, fatwah), but not - as far as I can tell - slavery.
3. Christian religious leaders also support extreme positions (e.g. humanism, transgender, woke etc.) without apparent support from the bible, but not - as far as I can tell - slavery or genocide.
In practice, slavery - or something which approximates it - is present in many countries around the world of all religions.
One key difference between Christianity and the other two Abrahamic religions is that Christianity advocates equal treatment for people of different religions while Islam and Judaism permit the treatment of "others" as second class citizens. That said, supposedly Christian countries have not historically behaved this way - although that is a matter of politics rather than religion.